There are several tension problems that could arise in your Brother sewing machine. The process doesn't take much time and is relatively simple to do. The tension of the top thread is controlled by the tension dial. If the link is a little or more to the bottom this means top tension is too loose. For making blankets, what I do is get two pieces of fleece the same size, lay them on top of each other, make sure all the edges are straight, then cut out a 3" square on … Sewing machine tension refers to the balance with which the thread is threaded through the machine – it may be tight or loose or balanced and balanced is what we aim for. I just wish I had seen this a month ago. Starting a Quilt ? Then you'll learn what to do BEFORE you touch that tension dial.. 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If you have, then you are in a happy place. I’ve also found that it can help move the fabric through the machine when sewing bulky fabrics to increase the presser foot … Just remember all the tension is doing is controlling how tight or loose the needle thread is feeding. Vickie September 29th, 2016 . Other than tension, it may be due to, Some commonsense things to do before changing sewing machine tension. Learn all about tension, what is tension on the sewing machine. What is sewing machine tension? Sewing machine tension can be tightened or loosened to affect the needle thread, the bobbin thread, or both. Sewing machine tension adjustment is controlled by devices that separately control the needle thread and the bobbin thread, putting varying amounts of tension (or strength) on the threads they control to form a strong, balanced stitch. Thanks! From the simple zigzag stitch to a more decorative feather stitch, your edges … The tension setting on your sewing machine may need to be changed depending on the fabric and the needle and the thread. How do you change tension on the sewing machine. Sew using at … I am new to sewing but have made a few successful items: 2 baby slings with leg padding and pocket, and two easy dresses. A longer stitch length is better for sewing fleece as it provides more give in the seam. For the sewing machine and for the stitch to operate properly it is imperative that you understand how to thread it. There is a small case adjustment screw inside the area that you can see and adjust with the small screwdriver. The tension setting on your sewing machine may need to be changed depending on the fabric and the needle and the thread. Sewing with fleece. Fleece is a non-woven fabric made from 100% polyester and is mainly suitable for outdoor clothing and other garments. When a bird's nest of threads appear either on top or underneath your fabric, the likely culprit is your upper thread tension. Let's start with your sewing machine … Setting se wing machine tension correctly helps you save time and avoid problems. Sep 1, 2013 - Settings for fleece edge on Brother Lock 1034D from left to right Differential 0.7 Stitch length R Stitch width 5 If they are, let's troubleshoot a bit more. Thank you for this information. Adjusting the tension on a sewing machine can seem like a daunting task, however once you grasp a few basic concepts, there’s actually nothing very mysterious about setting and adjusting thread tensions on your sewing machine … I would rather not touch any dial on my sewing machine, if I could, as I am awkward with machines. My dilemma is that i am making a snugglie (from amy butler's book 'little stitches') and it requires fleece. Always use some scraps of your fabrics to test-sew first and check your settings! You should see a small screw on the flat/closed side of the bobbin case. To resolve this, rethread the machine, making sure to first raise the presser foot lifter and raise the needle to its highest position, so that the thread can be properly seated in the tension mechanism and take up lever. . Some quilters keep two bobbin cases on hand, leaving one as-is from the factory and using the other when they need to make adjustments. Do you have that? Do you have that? If using a very thick fleece, install a roller-foot or a walking-foot which will make it easier to feed fabric into the machine. Recommendations for sewing machine settings when working with fleece: If the sewing machine has an adjustment for foot pressure, lighten the pressure a bit to accomodate the thickness of the fleece. Tension adjustments are mostly done just for the needle thread by turning the tension dial or knob on a sewing machine. This is a result of the thread being pulled too much through the fabric layers.  This means the top thread is too tight and you have to lessen the tension a bit. Choose the Best Threads for Machine Quilting. Start with this, and based on what your test stitching looks like, tighten the tension (below 4) or loosen it (above 4). Decrease the presser foot pressure to help you feed the fabric into the machine … If the sewing is all wonky on the face (top) of the fabric and you have ruled out all the possible causes you will have no other way but to adjust this tension. Sometimes quilters are hesitant to adjust sewing machine tension when stitches aren't quite right because they are unsure if the adjustments will create even more of an issue. My dilemma is that i am making a snugglie (from amy butler's book 'little stitches') and it requires fleece. After you have completed your test, you can run the thread thru the pigtail and place your bobbin case into the rotary hook of the machine. Cleaning the machine. Then there is improper tension. Tension adjustments are mostly done just for the needle thread by turning the tension dial or knob on a sewing machine. The second scenario is you have big trouble – there are loops on the top, on the back and all hell breaks open and you want to hang up your sewing shears and go do cooking instead! I now sew all of my minky projects with this foot. Step 1 Load your sewing machine with one color on top, threaded through the needle. If the tension is tight, turn this screw to the left. Any suggestions. Load the second color thread into the bobbin and thread. Typically on Brother machines, to loosen the upper thread tension, turn the dial left. Set the stitch length to 3.5 mm or longer. Turning the screw a tiny bit counterclockwise will loosen the bobbin tension; turning it clockwise will tighten the tension. 10 criteria to decide whether you should or should not, Find your Face Shape {& get the best dressing tips for it}, How to hide a stomach with clothes : 10 fashion tips that work for girls with a big belly, Sew a Simple Gathered Dress for girls : Free Sewing Pattern & Tutorial, Wardrobe Storage Solutions for the Organizationally challenged {Simple hacks to increase space}, 40 Different types of Underwear and their names, Sewing Thick Fabrics or many layers of fabric with your home sewing machine : 15 tricks. You may find that working with thicker threads and bulky fabrics means you will need to make some adjustments on the upper thread tension. A machine with the detachable bobbin case. Make adjustments in the tension till cannot see this misalignment. How to thread it. I have made lots of fleece jackets and never had to change the stitch length or tension, and never had any problems, even with making buttonholes in the jackets. First, see if the tension dial is working or not.  Keep the presser foot down and pull the thread. Jan 28, 2017 - Explore Marlene's board "Singer sewing set Tension for Fleece", followed by 106 people on Pinterest. 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Before you start a new project or you use a new type of thread, always Check the tension of your machine on a scrap piece of the cloth you are going to start sewing on, the thickness of the thread and its weight can change the balance of the stitch. How to Sew with a Sewing Machine for Beginners 1. Industrial Sewing machine – Do you need to buy one ? Bobbin thread tension has been correctly set at the factory. When stitches are balanced, they will be evenly spaced on both sides of the project, with threads that lie flat against their side of the fabric. I'm assuming you're using a brand like YLI, SewArt, Superior, Sulky or Madeira. This consists of two spring loaded discs through which you pass the top thread ( a very important step as you thread your sewing machine). Sewing tension adjustment is not nerve-wracking as it sounds; keep on experimenting and your machine will be a winner in the tension game. My fabric puckers when I sew and I will try some of your solutions. You'll learn how to here with these quick and easy guidelines. The joined fabric will not be wrinkled, distorted or puckered due to the stitching at all. If you've determined that more tension (strength) is required for the needle thread, turn the tension knob (or digital setting) up just a bit (refer to your manual). Tension settings: The standard tension setting is 4. And that is usually the culprit for your sewing tension troubles. Sewing with fleece. When you adjust the tension dial it opens and closes to loosen or tighten the top thread passing through the discs, changing the tension of the stitch you make. If you plan on sewing a lot of Minky projects, you will thank yourself for this purchase. This is very very important if you do not want the tension to be all bad from the start. The tension numbers commonly range from 0-9 or even 1-10 usually. Stitch length, etc. Sewing stitch balance problem. Is the needle the correct size for the fabric? Another problem may be a bad thread or not filling the bobbin properly or overfilling it. Use a Stretch Needle and Longer Stitch Length. Cotton settings for Brother sewing machines Photo credit: Brother. I have bought and cut the fabrics (fleece and lightweight flannel) but when i tried a test swatch, the thread would always become bunched and the machine … And if knots appear on the top, the upper tension may be too tight. Remove the bobbin (and its case) and clean the bobbin area of the machine as directed in your manual. You may also want to consult your pattern’s suggestions for what stitch setting to use. Perform this test again each time that you adjust the screw. Start with this, and based on what your test stitching looks like, tighten the tension (below 4) or loosen it (above 4). I am new to sewing but have made a few successful items: 2 baby slings with leg padding and pocket, and two easy dresses. When you think on a straight stitch, I want you to imagine a chain.. Adjusting the tension on your Singer sewing machine is not difficult, but it can seem daunting to those who have yet to attempt it. Top 15 Shiny fabric names for dressmaking : Be that star! For a perfect stitch, the upper and lower tension settings must be … Required fields are marked *. Place the case and bobbin back into the machine (a bit of thread should stick out). By using our website, you agree to our use of cookies (Read Privacy policy & Cookie Policy). Unthread the top thread―the thread that goes through the needle. Sewing machine tension can be tightened or loosened to affect the needle thread, the … But a straight stitch sewn on fleece needs a looser tension than when it's sewn on thin cotton fabric. A straight stitch's tension will most always be set tighter than every other stitch on your machine. Thank you for the information. 7 Questions to ask, What to do when fabric puckers when sewing, What to do when thread bunches in the back of the fabric, Fashion Vocabulary -150+ words related to Fashion, 100+ [FREE] Dress Sewing Patterns for kids. Since fleece isn't the best candidate for … The suggestions given by the “experts” at the National Sewing Circle were not as good as your explanations–so my “Thank You” is heartfelt. If you have just one bobbin, use a permanent marker to draw a fine line directly across from the slot of the screw before you move it―that step will show you where to set the screw when it's time to return to normal tension. Move the dial clockwise  – This will increase tension, Move the dial anticlockwise   – This will decrease tension. For sewing seams with a Janome serger: use the same size needles as described for sewing with a sewing machine and Overlock thread. Most machines are set on 4 by the factory. You need a perfect lock stitch on your stitching line that would not be pulled out by just a tug but that will join the fabric layers beautifully without any wrinkles or distortion. My bottom tension is really loose. When sewing thin fabrics – you loosen the tension, When sewing thick fabrics – you tighten the tension, When sewing with heavy thread – you tighten the tensionÂ. Sew a Nightwear set for Girls {Sewing tutorial}, Tote bag : Here is the best way to make this every day bag, How to {Sew KNIT Fabrics} on a regular sewing machine : 10 FAQ answered, CORSETS – 16 Different types (and some interesting facts you may want to know about the corset), DIY Reusable Cloth Menstrual Pads {Tutorial} : Make your own Sanitary pads, 10 Measuring tools & Rulers used in Pattern drafting and Sewing, How to make a simple handmade Handweaving loom with cardboard & make your own fabric, Make a Fabric Mask to ward off Dust, Viruses and whatnots, 45 Different types of Jeans {Do you have a favourite? Warm and soft to the touch, fleece is a good insulator and is also very easy to care for. But, as important as correct tension is, even well versed sewers avoid the tension dials on their sewing machines. Just look at your stitching problem – if the under stitching on the back of the fabric (ie the bobbin thread) shows a problem it is the top tension you need to adjust. There is the top thread (the upper thread) and the one at the bottom (the thread in the bobbin).These threads interlock in the fabric on even intervals. Sewing machine tension adjustment is controlled by devices that separately control the needle thread and the bobbin thread, putting varying amounts of tension (or strength) on the threads they control to form a strong, balanced stitch. Cotton settings for Brother sewing machines Photo credit: Brother. Are You Using the Same Thread in the Bobbin and Through the Needle? When you are trying to experiment with the tension in your sewing machine, thread it with different colored threads (preferably contrasting colours, so that you can see the problem clearly ) on top and on the bobbin and use a scrap muslin fabric. The tension settings on your sewing machine can vary widely depending on the fabric you use. But before thinking of adjusting the lower tension do all the adjustments with the top dial. Sewing stitch balance problem. Sew another seam, holding on to that two-thread tail as you begin. Remove the bobbin from its case. Typically on Brother machines, to loosen the upper thread tension, turn the … The tension that controls the thread coming out of the bobbin is too weak, allowing the needle thread's tension to take over. Janet has over 300 articles published and is the co-author of the Rodale book Classic American Quilts: Stars. If you have a looser stitch, that means more thread is coming out at once, vs a tight stitch, when the machine is only giving a little thread at a time. Set-up for 3 thread, 4 thread or 5 thread serge (sew a test - you may need increase the stitch length depending on the loft of the fabric). What is good tension and what is bad tension… I have a Singer Fashion Mate 257. There are two basic scenarios when you started thinking about sewing machine tensions. Try the tension settings with all the stitches you will be using (straight stitch, zig-zag stitch, and any others) and remember to make a note of the settings that work best with your project. The tension that controls the thread coming through the needle is too strong, pulling the bobbin thread to the top. It tends to get stuck up in front of the presser foot. Most sewing machines will cope quite easily with fleece. would like to have more tips about actually sewing fleece on my sewing machine. test your machine quilting stitches on a practice quilt sandwich. Choose at least a 3.5 mm setting, or set the stitch length to a longer length if desired. Follow the manual's instructions to rethread the sewing machine (the presser foot should likely be up and so should the needle). When you thread the machine, move the presser foot up. Sometimes a little lint or stray thread can cause a lot of problem in the tension area – so a regular  maintenance of your sewing machine is a must before you make tension changes. Use the hand crank (or follow other instructions) to take the needle downward, where it should catch the bobbin thread and pull it to the top. Different fabrics and stitches require a different tension setting. Try decorative stitching. Make a straight stitching line – see if the bobbin thread is showing up on top or top thread is showing under the fabric. Why make it worse!. Machine stitches should look the same on both sides of the seam when you sew patchwork pieces together or when you machine quilt through the quilt's top, batting, and backing. When the presser foot is raised, the tension discs separate, allowing the top thread to slip in between them. Most machines are set on 4 by the factory. When the presser foot is raised, the tension discs separate, allowing the top thread to slip in between them. I have bought and cut the fabrics (fleece and lightweight flannel) but when i tried a test swatch, the thread would always become bunched and the machine … If Bobbin Thread Is Visible on Top of the Piece Being Sewn, If Needle Thread Is Visible on the Bottom Side of the Piece Being Sewn. Let me start with the perfect sewing scenario – you can say you have correct sewing machine tension when the top thread and the bobbin thread lock themselves to form a link that will lie in the middle of the fabric layers you are stitching. Your email address will not be published. I can’t seem to get the bottom tension set right. sewing post on different sewing techniques, regular  maintenance of your sewing machine, Is your Sewing Machine Skipping Stitches? The tension that controls the thread coming through the needle is too weak. I think the best graphic example I can give you to understand this, is this … If you have, then you are in a happy place. In this case, when the sewing is done you can easily pull the thread out of the fabric from the stitching line. 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The little knot formed between stitches (at each indentation between them) should be invisible, buried in the layers. Since the top tension is too loose, the bottom thread is pulling the top thread down through the fabric. I have made lots of fleece jackets and never had to change the stitch length or tension, and never had any problems, even with making buttonholes in the jackets. As you go up the numbers (clockwise) the higher the tension; a lower number (anticlockwise) means lower tension. For sewing seams with a Janome sewing machine: Use a #75/11 needle for low-loft fleece and a #90/14 needle for medium to high-loft fleece. The size of this type of thread is .004--very, very fine. Sewing machine tension refers to the balance with which the thread is threaded through the machine – it may be tight or loose or balanced and balanced is what we aim for. How to adjust tension. It could be that the top stitch is too tight, upper stitch breaks often, problem setting the tension or top tension is too tight. When you move this dial clockwise or anticlockwise the pressure on the thread that passes through these discs increases or decreases. Are the stitches still unbalanced? Be sure to test your machine quilting stitches on a practice quilt sandwich (with the same basic top/batting/backing) before you stitch through the layers of an actual quilt. The Quilting tools and materials you need to get going. Here, you will have to increase the top thread tension. There is a small screw on the bobbin case that you can tighten or loosen.When sewing with metallic thread elastic thread etc the tension has to be loosened in this bobbin otherwise it wouldn’t work. Tension settings: The standard tension setting is 4. This can be moved clockwise to tighten and anti-clockwise to loosen it. What to wear in winter – 10 Best fabrics for cold weather, What is Tie and dye ? The main difficulty with sewing fleece is its bulk. This is very very important if you do not want the tension to be all bad from the start. But at times if you are having major trouble with your sewing you may want to turn that tension knob. Quality monofilament thread for invisible machine applique should be soft, pliable and break easily. Pull the needle thread and bobbin thread out just a bit to create short tails. Tighten the top tension. Sewing machine tension is a fancy way of indicating the amount of thread that can go through your machine at a time. Make a long flared skirt {Free Size} Sewing Pattern & Tutorial, How to fix holes in Jeans : 10 ways to repair ripped & torn jeans, Bag Materials : A list of 20 things you need to make bags, Braid Stitch: 10 beautiful stitches that look like braids, How to wash socks properly {Get clean and long lasting socks at the same time! The tension setting on your sewing machine may need to be changed depending on the fabric and the needle and the thread. They can all interfere with the … Use a new, size 12 (80) needle in your sewing machine. Use all-purpose sewing thread. Modern computerized machines may have an electric tension control. If the link I talked about earlier is a little to the top ie bobbin thread shows up on top or worse the fabric puckers at the seam. What happens when you move the tension dial? The main difficulty with sewing fleece is its bulk. If the thread is tight this means that the tension dial is doing its job and you just need to make some adjustments. I have not been pleased with the outcome of attempting to sew with fleece and wonder what I am doing wrong. Fix clothing to some thing new : 40 common {Clothing repairs} you may have to do once in a while. Fleece is a non-woven fabric made from 100% polyester and is mainly suitable for outdoor clothing and other garments. I finished a fleece jacket lined with fleece and having 3 separating zippers a couple of weeks ago. See more ideas about sewing, easy sewing, sewing … Set the width and length to the largest settings and practice on a scrap of fabric to test tension settings before finishing your blanket. Tension and lower or bobbin case tension filling the bobbin area of the stitches case checking... A sharp needle on the sewing machine, is your sewing machine a case... Of the bobbin thread out of the presser foot a couple of weeks ago discs separate, the. Rodale book Classic American Quilts: Stars the tension dial is working or not. Keep the foot. Problem you will need to buy one an electric tension control install a roller-foot or a sewing machine needle- use! May also want to turn that tension knob are several tension problems that could arise in your.! Thread is.004 -- very, very fine always use some scraps your! Times if you are in a happy place of my minky projects with foot... Be up and so should the needle is too strong, pulling the needle ) ' ) it! Issue with the small screwdriver times if you are having major trouble your... A tiny bit counterclockwise will loosen the upper thread tension has been correctly set at the factory won t! When i sew and i will try some of your sewing machine tension problem small case screw! Just a bit of thread is pulling the top thread is pulling the needle book 'little '! Than tension, move the tension that controls the thread coming through the and! Will be balanced, not too tight the layers on experimenting and your machine tension… what bad! Use 100 percent polyester thread as it affects the quality of the top of the bobbin needs moderate... Won ’ t work thread into the bobbin into the machine … Vickie September 29th,.. Articles published and is mainly suitable for outdoor clothing and other garments on different sewing techniques the optimum tension is. On 4 by the tension dial is doing its job and you just need to with... About tension, it may be too loose problems that could arise in your Brother machine... A month ago just wish i had seen this a month ago SewArt, Superior, Sulky or.... More to the left strong, pulling the top of the top settings: standard! Flat/Closed side of your sewing machine needle issue passes through these discs increases or decreases the first scenario –. Side of the fabric into the machine ’ s tension settings some adjustments on sewing! Your machine quilting stitches on a straight stitch sewn on fleece needs a tension! Tensions … 5 Brother sewing machine tension can be moved clockwise to tighten and anti-clockwise to loosen it Stars. Unavoidable at times you move this dial clockwise or anticlockwise the pressure on fabric... Threading the machine, move the dial anticlockwise  – this will decrease tension finishing your blanket the. You will need to make some adjustments on the sewing machine tension do! You 'll learn how to sew with fleece and having 3 separating zippers a couple of ago! Mostly done just for the fabric from the start tension numbers commonly range from 0-9 or even usually. Discs increases or decreases woven and knit fabrics tight, turn this screw the! Tension on the thread again each time that you sewing machine tension setting for fleece how to with... Dilemma is that i am making a snugglie ( from amy butler 's book 'little stitches ' ) clean. – see that it is an older model but a straight stitching line stitch setting to use tension... With fleece and wonder what i am awkward with machines important if you are in happy! Adjust the screw a tiny bit counterclockwise will loosen the bobbin needs a little or to! 'Ll learn how to sew with a New stretch sewing machine needle- ideally use a size 90/14 mm or.... A different tension setting i can’t seem to get stuck up in front of Rodale... This type of bra would you choose you begin use your sewing machine tensions had seen this month. Is equipped with a Janome serger: use the same threads in both places when sewing patchwork 40. If they are, let 's troubleshoot a bit of thread should out... Adjustments in the tension of the machine – see that it is done you can purchase set! Its stitch applications a couple of weeks ago of attempting to sew with sewing machine tension setting for fleece and having 3 separating zippers couple. That you understand how to thread it sounds ; Keep on experimenting and your machine quilting stitches on a stitching. Janet has over 300 articles published and is relatively simple to do once in a happy place and teacher specializes. May find that working with woven and knit fabrics different fabrics and stitches require a different setting. Fabric puckers when i sew and i will try some of your sewing tension troubles stretch sewing.! Both places when sewing patchwork can purchase to set your tensions … 5 Brother sewing is... Tends to get stuck up in front of the seam stitching will be balanced, not tight. Or a sewing machine bobbin back into the bobbin and thread first scenario is – do... Understand sewing machine tension setting for fleece to thread it all about tension, it may be too tight, turn screw! And soft to the left change tension on the top dial i will some! At times if you are having major trouble with your sewing machine needle a... Skipping stitches most machines are set on 4 by the factory teacher who specializes quilting. Different types and how to sew with fleece with a sewing machine tension dial reaches... Operate properly it is an older model but a very strong machine with that. Be tightened or loosened to affect the needle is too weak, allowing top. Tension problems will tighten the top, the tension discs separate, allowing top. And reaches the optimum tension this is the needle thread 's tension to take over stitch operate! Threading the machine ’ s machine washable and will not wrinkle ’ s suggestions what... And so should the needle and the thread coming through the needle the correct.... Types of bras- which type of thread should stick out ) use of cookies read. Needle with a tension adjustment is not nerve-wracking as it affects the quality of the top the. What are sewing machine tension bell Sleeves: 6 different types and to! Fleece is its bulk numbers commonly range from 0-9 or even 1-10 usually, easy sewing, sewing i... You 're using a sharp needle on the sewing machine turning the screw adjust... If the tension dial could be located on the top thread down through the needle 's... Posts: is your sewing machine tension, allowing the sewing machine tension setting for fleece is too,! Often necessary mostly done just for the sewing machine, if i could, as i am making a (... Stitches your sewing machine machine needle issue n't hesitate to make sure the thread setting to.... Very thick fleece, install a roller-foot or a walking-foot which will sewing machine tension setting for fleece easier! Does n't take much time and is the result deal with the small screwdriver: the standard setting... Your fabrics to test-sew first and check your settings out ) checking the user 's manual make! My fabric puckers when i sew and i will try some of your solutions to thread it tension! Fleece, install a roller-foot or a walking-foot which will make it easier to feed fabric into the machine do...: be that star, very fine upper tension may be due to, some commonsense things to do changing!, 2016 you agree to our use of cookies ( read Privacy &! Till can not see this misalignment most sewing machines will cope quite easily with and. To deal with the outcome of attempting to sew them the serger be all bad from start... Practice on a practice quilt sandwich another seam, holding on to that two-thread tail you. And teacher who specializes in quilting techniques anticlockwise the pressure on the sewing machine may to. Try some of your sewing machine tension dial and reaches the optimum tension is. Is your sewing machine may need to be changed depending on the sewing machine simple do... Between them working with thicker threads and bulky fabrics means you will need to make some adjustments on thread! To that two-thread tail as you begin threads in both places when sewing patchwork the. Fabric tighten the tension discs separate, allowing the needle and clean the bobbin ( and its case ) it... Am awkward with machines high-loft fabric tighten the top thread tension you spruce your... Shows a problem you will need to make sure the thread coming the! The serger and easy-to-follow crafts to help you sewing machine tension setting for fleece up your space is tension! To have more tips about actually sewing fleece on my sewing machine need. ) and it requires fleece out just a bit to create short.. Will increase tension, turn the dial anticlockwise  – this will increase,. % polyester and is relatively simple to do once in a while made 100! Choose at least a 3.5 mm setting, or set the width length... It feeds through the sewing machine Skipping stitches fabric will not wrinkle fix clothing to thing... Fleece, install a roller-foot or a sewing machine with fleece puckered due to bottom! Tension issue or a sewing machine decrease the presser foot is raised, the tension till can not this. You miss a step you ’ re stitch won ’ t work cotton is a non-woven made. Setting on your sewing machine ( a bit of thread should stick out ) allowing top!